tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post2143574040322104332..comments2023-05-24T07:55:20.446-07:00Comments on Stoney Emshwiller: THIS IS KIND OF A DRAGAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-66232134096730083592015-04-26T12:03:12.068-07:002015-04-26T12:03:12.068-07:00Thank you for your comment!Thank you for your comment!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-32540514187245329622015-04-24T23:36:11.594-07:002015-04-24T23:36:11.594-07:00Men are considered handsome real humans who can ad...Men are considered handsome real humans who can add silly padding, uncomfortable shoes, clothes, and makeup, and screech in high voices to be those embarrassing less than human jokes, i.e. women. Without the makeup and clothes, women are seen as lesser men, not even useful enough to be successfully regarded as their only accepted roles in society: decorative wallpaper or nurturing mommies. Whether the penis goes in or the baby comes out, women are seen as worthless other than their holes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-2879077010710892662014-06-12T22:55:17.116-07:002014-06-12T22:55:17.116-07:00You’re right that we should hear from women on thi...You’re right that we should hear from women on this issue. Incidentally, my wife read the post and tells me she wholeheartedly agrees with me about it all… but then again she also tells me I’m not getting fat or going bald and that I’m amazing in bed. None of which is true.<br /><br />I meant it when I started the original post by announcing that I was “just thinking aloud.” It’s mostly just an interesting mental exercise. But, to address your point about how woman pretending to be men can indeed be funny. I agree. I didn’t mean to imply a woman could never, ever be funny by dressing up as a man. Sure they can. (The link you sent me of Sarah Silverman in a mustache is a perfect case in point.) But, to belabor my gender/race analogy, when Eddie Murphy and the Wayan Brothers put on white face and act all “whitey,” they are indeed often very, very funny. But does that mean blackface is okay to do then? Not a bit.<br /><br />The semi-coherent point I’ve tried to raise here is, I think, related to that old saying about how humor ideally should always “punch upwards,” toward the powerful and privileged. <br /><br />Thank you again for all your thought-provoking comments. I really appreciate them! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-12853194771327262412014-06-12T21:35:29.261-07:002014-06-12T21:35:29.261-07:00And by-the-way, I don't have any skin in the g...And by-the-way, I don't have any skin in the game either way, especially because I don't really like that kind of humor anyway. If I learn through this conversation that men dressing as women for comedy is denigrating to them, then I'll be the first one (or more accurately, the next one) to boycott. But I don't really see it. I'm actually looking forward to being enlightened, though, so I hope some more women jump into the discussion.<br />Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224367653889945626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-44945964075455136632014-06-12T21:18:21.975-07:002014-06-12T21:18:21.975-07:00It seems like a good indicator would be if women a...It seems like a good indicator would be if women are offended by men dressing as women for comedy. What do you think, women?Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224367653889945626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-4561862160089068392014-06-12T16:35:38.342-07:002014-06-12T16:35:38.342-07:00Thanks again for commenting, Lesli! (And I also l...Thanks again for commenting, Lesli! (And I also love Dame Edna and Some Like it Hot.) ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-48765122558261490792014-06-12T13:26:11.075-07:002014-06-12T13:26:11.075-07:00Hi Stoney, its me, Lesli (LB) its all good food fo...Hi Stoney, its me, Lesli (LB) its all good food for thought... xoxoLBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-41225608440835984642014-06-12T09:16:40.208-07:002014-06-12T09:16:40.208-07:00Thanks for you comment!Thanks for you comment!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-82802390691325733032014-06-11T23:18:17.615-07:002014-06-11T23:18:17.615-07:00I guess we can intellectualise the whole thing but...I guess we can intellectualise the whole thing but I find it hysterical when men dress as women (some like it hot, dame edna) and I dont really see the comparison to minstrel shows...LBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-20895990323275368622014-06-11T19:37:10.749-07:002014-06-11T19:37:10.749-07:00Thanks GLS!Thanks GLS!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-37070729911974058492014-06-11T19:36:49.285-07:002014-06-11T19:36:49.285-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-56833824114637292052014-06-11T19:35:56.608-07:002014-06-11T19:35:56.608-07:00Well, we'll, well. Ev-a-bottie has so much to ...Well, we'll, well. Ev-a-bottie has so much to say about this. Sean and I think you kids, male female, and all the in between denominations should just settle down now, put on your big red diapers and catch a ride in the big rock head in the sky. P. S. Your illustration style is superb and captures your sense of humor so perfectly. Love it! Love it all! You can wear any thing you like my Scotty-boieeeee!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10653089635133637040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-84531591435934043402014-06-11T19:00:19.889-07:002014-06-11T19:00:19.889-07:00I concur.I concur.Barry Evanshttps://www.facebook.com/barry.evans.79noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-35587110102530865612014-06-11T18:57:36.351-07:002014-06-11T18:57:36.351-07:00Thanks for the comment, Barry! Good stuff. In fa...Thanks for the comment, Barry! Good stuff. In fairness, though I agree Connery would look pretty silly in an evening gown, I think you would rock it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-17781985505708834362014-06-11T18:46:41.389-07:002014-06-11T18:46:41.389-07:00I’m not sure I’d put drag shows on the same level ...I’m not sure I’d put drag shows on the same level as minstrel shows (I almost wrote menstrual shows by mistake), but it’s an interesting thought experiment. <br /><br />Your other point, about boys’ and girls’ clothing in general, I’m totally with you on. Perhaps when a “first class citizen” dons the costume of a “second class citizen” we find it inherently funny. If both genders were truly equal, we probably wouldn’t find Sean Connery in a well-fitted, stylish evening gown automatically silly. But in our society as it stands, a woman putting on male clothing is putting on the wardrobe of power and privilege. A man putting on women’s clothing is putting on the garb that still, even today, signals fragility, weakness, and lower status. <br /><br />BTW, this is probably why I always feel a hot chick (pardon the expression) clomping around in army boots is sexier than one teetering about precariously on high heels.<br /><br />-- Barry Evans<br />Barry Evanshttps://www.facebook.com/barry.evans.79noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-15949602118702794342014-06-11T18:08:13.304-07:002014-06-11T18:08:13.304-07:00Also, your point at the end about the “intention” ...Also, your point at the end about the “intention” behind the drag is a good one, as is the comment about minstrel performers acting idiotic. <br /><br />But, devils advocate: it could be argued that when Al Jolson put on blackface and took a knee to sing “Mammy” he did it with great pathos and dignity and respect for the character he was portraying. Yet we still cringe when we watch it today. Why is that?<br /><br />I think it has something to do with what them young-uns today call “Privilege.” In this still very racist/sexist world, being a white male and pretending to be someone of lower privilege just feels inherently wrong and insulting. <br /><br />But again, this is all just me thinking out loud. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-47112720302669492522014-06-11T18:02:44.350-07:002014-06-11T18:02:44.350-07:00Andy, many good points! Thanks for your thoughtful...Andy, many good points! Thanks for your thoughtful response. Great stuff.<br /><br />I still say that this basic, simple fact is telling: Take any woman who is considered pretty universally attractive, say Megan Fox or Marilyn Monroe. Put her in a tuxedo or man’s business suit. Hot. Now take any male considered pretty universally attractive. Say Ryan Gosling or Sean Connery. Put him in an evening gown or cocktail dress. People will laugh. This, to me, is not a trivial thing.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-44708317855189045332014-06-11T17:20:28.996-07:002014-06-11T17:20:28.996-07:00Cross dressing is denigrating to women? Hmmm. I’ll... Cross dressing is denigrating to women? Hmmm. I’ll have to think about that one. It seems more denigrating to the comedian (a long-held form of comedy, in and of itself) to pretend they are the opposite sex. The comedian cross-dresser has never seemed that funny to me, but rather awkward. Since they don’t seem that funny to me, I can only guess why there is a long tradition of cross-dressing comedians. I always assumed that the humor was because the man was obviously not being a very good woman, with a beer gut and a beard, and the fake high-pitched voice is funny because, again, they were so obviously bad at it. I would imagine the more feminine the comedian, the less funny the cross dressing would be. And part of it is that the comedian thinks they’re being funny. As you pointed out, if they were serious about cross-dressing, like a serious drag queen, no one would be laughing. <br /><br />I would be surprised if people thought it was funny because women are goofy, but rather because the comedian seemed goofy trying to be a woman. It seems more like a comedian pretending they are an Olympic athlete, or a politician, or a psychiatrist, when they are obviously really bad versions of those people.<br /><br />Why aren’t women thought of as funny when they dress as guys? Well, in my view they can be. Lucille Ball seemed pretty funny when she did it, but again, she wanted to be funny. If she wanted to be sexy dressed up as a guy, she could have been that, too. <br /><br />Once again, I am impressed with your mind, Stoney. Thanks for making us think about this.<br /><br />(Just a bit more) It also depends on *how* the comedian portrays a woman. If they're acting like an idiot, then that is denigrating to women, or at least the woman they are portraying. If they are trying to act like a real woman and failing, then that is more denigrating to themselves. The blackface comedian usually acted like an idiot, so it was obviously a denigrating act of comedy.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224367653889945626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-66401309868367961752014-06-11T16:53:27.712-07:002014-06-11T16:53:27.712-07:00Not the ballgag! ;-)Not the ballgag! ;-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-69146649387821380512014-06-11T16:50:52.564-07:002014-06-11T16:50:52.564-07:00High heels are bad for you and they hurt. We'v...High heels are bad for you and they hurt. We've been brainwashed into thinking they are sexy. I protest. There, I said it. <br /><br />And I'm taking my ballgag off, too.Margaret McGlynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11503396085183185534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-74223687123858582662014-06-11T16:49:14.056-07:002014-06-11T16:49:14.056-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Margaret McGlynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11503396085183185534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-21846872305732100712014-06-11T16:03:58.374-07:002014-06-11T16:03:58.374-07:00Thanks for the comment. And I hear you. I’d prob...Thanks for the comment. And I hear you. I’d probably have the same reaction to a woman in that kinda outfit. I’ve honestly got no problem with that. What turns you on is what turns you on -- whether it’s a rubber ballgag, chainmail codpiece, honeybadger costume, or high heels. It’s when our society, in essence, insists that women walk around all day wearing said ballgag that I have a problem… :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13257544024466594087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6474792771561163449.post-86082036303827315892014-06-11T15:39:03.349-07:002014-06-11T15:39:03.349-07:00I agree with most of what you say. But as a straig...I agree with most of what you say. But as a straight man brought up in the American culture it's hard to let go of a lifetime of sex-role indoctrination. Yes, my consciousness has been raised enough over the years that I realize women’s fashion can be oppressive, impractical, stupid, and restrictive. But, that being said, a beautiful woman in stiletto heels, red lipstick, pushup bra, and a tight lacy dress still gets Mini Me excited, even though in my bigger head I know it’s not PC. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com